Thankfully you and every other member of the current CSM were out voted to such a large degree that your opinion is irrelevant.

Edit: And I'm sure you've never said anything stupid while drunk either.

Sad to see I was the only CSM 7 member to go on the record with my outrage at the incident.

We got what I believe is a sincere apology now the question I believe is before CSM 7, CCP and most importantly the players. "is that enough"?

One thing despite the apology this was an action that was started before the panel, the whole presentation was created prior to the fanfest and I assume in a more sober frame of mind. So humiliation of the player in question was definitely intended. I think the drunkenness let Mittens cross a line but how much further was that from the actual intent?

Issler

No it isn't enough.

He cannot continue as the chairman after this behaviour and if he tries to (and the other members of the CSM let him) then you are going to be tarred with the same brush. Even on the assumption the apology was genuine he is going to need to step back and allow another CSM member untainted by the televised cyberbullying and abuse episide speak for the player council for the next cycle.

hey issler can you record the skype meeting when you bring this matter to the rest of the CSM's attention, because i don't wana wait until darius sends it off to riverini first

So is anyone surprised that The Mittani behaves the same in real life as in-game? He consistently mixes the two when posting in forums. He's a self-admitted sadist. That's not roleplaying. I'm boggled that anyone is boggled by anything he said at fanfest. Have you been paying any attention at all?

In vino veritas.

The only thing being drunk did is bring out his true nature as a human being.

Isslers 1st post in : The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues



+1 for a balanced fair discourse.

Scumbag

Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.

Oh come on now I think you might be exaggerating a little there....


.... oh well, shine on you beautiful butthurt diamond.

Also Issler welcome to the harsh realities of the rest of eve that isn't highsec. May your own butthurt confirm every negative stereotype I have ever heard about carebears.

Jumped in to show mittens I am a loyal lap dog!! Bark Bark!!!!

I'm going to +1 this for a couple reasons:

The last CSM was very effective because we worked hard to stay in touch and not get publicly combative and look dysfunctional. Issler, you should probably sort out your NDA and get into Skype with the rest of us. We obviously have an issue to resolve but this isn't the way to go about it. Hell, some of us are asleep, just waking up or even still in Iceland.

I have to disagree with this.This isn't an ingame matter or something covered with the NDA,this was a real life mistake that even Alex said he feels absolutely ashamed about.

I'm sure I'm not the only voter who is curious as to what each individual CSM rep thinks about this.This isn't the time to go into your CSM channels and work out some joint damage control.This is one of those times where people have to stand up and be counted as individuals and not hide behind a collective !

How is something a player does in the real life against the ToS?

Also, while I completely agree that it was out of line to ask for other people to message him, somehow there are a few things people are forgetting.

1. CCP had access to all presentations beforehand and obviously didn't object to anything. The Alliance Panel is traditionally pretty laissez-faire. People presenting drunk is not something new on this particular panel and CCP obviously doesn't mind.

2. Mittens wasn't on the alliance panel in his capacity as a CSM member. He was there to represent Goonswarm. I wasn't a particular fan of the slide in question, since Depression is unfortunately a pretty serious condition, but other people didn't seem to mind.
During the CSM panel where he actually spoke in an official capacity, he was not drunk and he behaved completely professional, doing exactly the job that was expected from him.

3. Nobody seemed to mind for 2 days after the alliance panel was presented. There were no sanctions by CCP, very few comments on the slide. Not even Evenews picked it up and Riverini and Mittens are not exactly the closest of friends.


I agree he did something wrong, but he apologized and I seriously doubt he will anything like that ever happen again. The absolute most he should do is step down as chairman of the CSM and let TwoStep take over, while remaining on the CSM panel as a normal member.
Removing him from the CSM alltogether will undoubtedly hurt Eve and that can't be in the interest of any player.

While I was posting Seleene made some very poised and polite comments. Nonetheless, I feel it is necessary for me to chime in because you asked me to.

Not only do I find this comment to be the furthest thing from constructive, I find it deeply offensive as both a member of CSM 6 and CSM 7. Previous incarnations of the CSM proved that when the CSM act as a disjointed set of individuals, very little is achieved. However, as CSM 6 illustrated, when they step off the soap box to actually communicate with one another and act with a united front, they are able to make waves.

While you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, it is downright shameful for you to pass judgement onto CSM members while you are the only one who has yet to join in the Skype channel and the only one who is not involved in our communication.



We do agree that the CSM is not a "popularity contest" and it is in fact best utilized as a communication tool between the players and CCP. Going out as a lone wolf with a megaphone and a soap box is fine as an individual, but while representing a greater body tact and communication are vital. I look forward to working with you, but please take the leap and join us so you can communicate with the CSM without blindly throwing us under the bus.

As has been stated many times throughout the campaign, the CSM and CCP work together constantly through a persistent conversation over Skype. So yes, we do have a channel open, and we make good use of it.

My statement on the Mitanni (and incidentally Issler "accepting" his apology though she sure doesn't act like it)

For me statement on Isslergate: At this point, you're doing more harm to the CSM than anything Mitanni has done. And I'd tell you that in person if you bothered talking to the rest of us.

Michelle, might I suggest that the best way you could be of service to the players is to get your NDA signed so we can get you on skype and explain what is going on?

I do not think it is unreasonable for us to take a collective breath and take a day or two to decide on the best course of action, and that decision is one that you should be involved in.

Best
Trebor

OK first things first.

It's pretty obvious that Issler doesn't give a damn about The Wis, this whole thread is just some weird soap boxing power play. Maybe she thinks the CSM works like The Highlander and if she can take out all the CSMs above her she gets to be chairman v0v

i still remember when Larkonis got CYBERBULLIED out of the CSM by Issler and his/her goons!

Issler, seeing you are becomming a target in the media aswel now, can we expect your resignation?

It really does matter, though given how politically clueless you were with the whole Issler campaign thing, I'm not surprised you don't get that. ANYWAY, moving on...

The point was that the words themselves weren't the source of outrage, it was the person who said them. If it well and truly was the words, the outpouring of rage that took off on Monday would have happened within minutes of him actually saying what he did. Funny how that didn't happen, though.

I do have a question for you, Issler, that is related. Could you clarify this please? Where exactly do you stand? (It's okay to not know exactly, so long as you're honest!)

And I should also note that I don't want to derail the thread completely with this, it just seems related due to the seeming incongruity.

Out of interest, are you content with what has happened (his declination of chair), and are you prepared to move forward with the CSM and work for the benefit of the game? Or are you going to sit in the corner with Darius crying about not getting chair, demanding Mittens removal from the CSM altogether and thus opening yourself up to relentless trolling?

Whatever anyone else is saying, I just wanted to say thanks for being up front about everything, Is.

It's a shame that Alex is off the CSM for a few reasons, he brought a lot of much needed and good changes to the table, and managed to push a lot of them through. I can't say I'm sad to see him go, though. I can only hope that having two PL people going to Iceland with the mentality that supercaps and the economy don't need a solid restructuring doesn't kill a lot of the good things that the CSM has been pushing so far. Without anyone to counterbalance them, it very well could have some bad results.

Hopefully people like Alex and yourself can be a voice of reason, even if you're not going to Iceland for a face-to-face with the devs.

Yay for political sabotage.

I say we re-run the whole CSM election and see what happens.

Yeah, I did not mention him running again in the re-election. If he got booted(he did), then the whole thing should be re-done anyway.

Way to play the "meta-game" guys.

I think some of the complainers should seriously "Win at EvE".

Once again, you could start by talking with the rest of the CSM first before publicly posting on critical situations. You would probably have a better idea of how it might work.

So much this.

This was a CCP PR issue, NOT a CSM issue. CSM should have HTFU until CCP made a decision, they are NOT supposed to have any directional input on the matter.

The Mittani was not affecting gameplay, ship balance, or the direction of development with his statement. He was just being a drunken douche. CCP gets to decide his fate due to it being in a public venue, the CSM itself has no say and should not try to abuse its power in such a situation.

My hats go off to the CSM members who let CCP deal with the issue themselves without trying to start a public uproar. Trying to threaten a whole BUSINESS for your politics is childish and selfish.

Your tone has changed considerably? WTF happened? Reading back a bit...

Hope you didn't attract TEST's attention. TEST is like a drunk, fat, greasy date with Herpes who sorta just shows up and leaves shortly after the rest of your alliance mates leave.

Guns! I love guns. Please tell me more!

And when was this post made?
Did they post anything before the banhammer?

Also, CSM is not here to discuss politics, it is here to help the direction of enhancements to the game. The only involvement the CSM should have had was discussing any beefing up (or clarification) of the ToS and EULA in the aftermath.

And if a CSM member was unhappy that it was not brought up in Skype chat... WHY DID THEY NOT BRING IT UP THEMSELVES.

You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.

I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.

Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.

Seriously Issler. This is not a war you're going to win. In the words of my father who was a diplomat for the Gallente Federation;

"It is easier to argue in public and seek the approval of many. Than it is to converse in private and seek the approval of one."

The one or few people you need to really get along with here is your CSM members.

I'm not a miner nor an industrialist so it doesn't affect me if you get booted. But you worked soooooo hard to get on the CSM to help improve the gameplay in these areas. Please stop arguing here in public and try to work on improving relations with the other CSM members.

Let cooler heads prevail

Issler,

Why do you sign your posts?

Thanks.

Attention Issler

You just failed the first test?!

The CSM needs to work as a cohesive unified group.

What you should have done is canvassed the rest of CSM7 for consensus. Guess what, if I was one of those people - I would not trust you Issler. Your pre-emptive action comes across as self serving.

The game is getting a major overhaul of skills and sub-cap ships. That is where you attention should be focused. Understanding this for yourself, what it means to your constituents and finally; what it means for other CSM7 members?! Because if you break ranks on this prime issue - the CSM process is broken by you.

Hear the Bears Roar? All I hear is choking.

Yes, you are wrong and have sullied the CSM further with your terrible antigoonism. There's a reason why all the NPC alts are on the anti mittens bandwagon. Now it's obvious that you're a kneejerking bandwagoning bad person who will gleefully swim with the sharks as soon as first blood is drawn.

Good luck on this CSM term after this ::awesome:: first step.

Dear Issler,

Alright, fair enough. There's no specific instances of anti-goonism in your posts. You still jumped on the bandwagon as soon as possible in order to promote anti-Mittani schtick in your bid to ride the wave of anti-goonism that the majority of EVE paosters share.

But hey, if you're writing sensationalist stuff about me and my 'space-madness' then all is fair. Oh, and picking apart my grammar instead of addressing my valid points? C'mon, that's so 1990.

Finally, I guess I have to explain my line about npc alts as it went right over your head. The NPC alts are posting goonie hate because they fear goonie retaliation. Now that you have outed yourself as an anti-goon for no other reason than to coast on pubbie shouts of "Yeah! Down with Goonswarm!" all the way to Iceland, you're seeing the backlash of goons and pubbies alike. No matter what kind of apology you offer to the CSM, it's not hard to see through your self-serving turncoat politics and general badness.

Looks like you and D3 will be the only two members of the anti-goon CSM section that no one will pay attention to.

With much <3,
~Aiden

P.S. Didn't writing letters die last century? You should really consider catching up to us here in the modern world. XOXOXO

Beautifully put.

I do hope, though, that the CSM is able to work together to embetter EVE. If you start churning out pants it will be quite a pity.

Do you mean "We" as in the CSM or just you? As far as I can tell you don't seem to have an intention of getting along with other CSM members. Times have changed, you are a relic of old times. CSM does not need your silliness around here.

Issler,

Any chance you could call for a lock on this thread?